Let's talk about appliers.

[Bobbie Faulds]

In another thread over in the General Discussion area, there is a discussion about Lola appliers.

I decided, after some of the comments, I'd try to clarify some things, maybe?

With the advent of mesh bodies and parts, you either have to use mesh clothing, which doesn't always work because of compatibly alpha layers, or go to the appliers to the mesh. These appliers are based on the old system layer templates.

For those that don't understand how they work, our default SL "mesh" body has system layers that are painted on (tat/undershirt/shirt/jacket/underpants/pants). The SL viewer has the system built in to apply them when we "wear" the items.

With the mesh body parts, the parts have to have a "listener" script in them that the "applier" talks to to tell the body part what layer and what texture to apply, hence why you use the UUID's in the applier system.

Most of these parts are all using basically the same applier scripts and listeners, set on thier own channels, for their body parts. When you look at the notecards that designers deal with, they all look basically the same. But with all the parts, trying to keep up with all the appliers for the various parts for making clothes for them is a nightmare. I'd have to make separate appliers for Wowmeh/SKing/GInc/Lena/Phat Azz/Ghetto Booty/Lolas, etc. The packages with stuff would be enormous if I tried to support all the various parts, not to mention the time it takes to make the appliers.

I would venture to say that most of the appliers use about the same scripts, judging from the notecards to input the UUID's for the layers.

Now, Chellynne Bailey came up with a brilliant idea. Since most of the bodies are mod, why not add an additional listener script, like adding another crystal to listen to a frequency on the old crystal radios, to the body parts so that only one applier was needed? Which she did. Now, instead of having to make appliers for all the different bodies, only one applier is needed for the shirt layer for all the compatible bodies. Same for pants, underwear and undershirts.

Omega system does that. I make the one applier for a shirt and it's compatible with just about everything except for Slink and The Mesh Project, both of which have their own systems. The new Belleza body even has a relay (good thing since there still isn't a designer kit out for it yet).

This means I make 2 appliers, Slink and Omega, and cover probably 99% of all the mesh parts in SL. I include the system layers as well. This includes the Immortals petite and giant avie as well as the Yabusaka avis.

For some reason, one of the posters in the other thread, seems to think that using the Omega system is using someone elses' appliers. I don't really see any difference between using it and using the the applier scripts provided in the various designer kits.

Chell provides the designer kit free of charge. The kit that has the listener script in is 99L if you aren't in the group and only 1L if you are in the group and the group is free, so obviously, she's not make a lot of money from this project. What she has done is make life much easier for the designers and for the customers looking for applier clothing for their mesh parts. Without it, there are a lot of mesh parts out there that there would be virtually no support for.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Perhaps it is because they have not been approved to be a designer for many of the "appliers" they utilize. Slink and many others want people to apply to use their brand, the Omega system bypasses all of that. They also did not purchase the applier to begin with. At one point they did indeed have a Slink applier. When Slink found out about it they were not amused and filed a DMCA on them. THAT is why i wont use it.

It's sad that a creator can't have a list of approved merchants because someone decided to hack the applier system.  Yes, Belleza does not have appliers yet, why should the Omega system be able to bypass that? If i make a mesh body, script it so only I, or approved merchants, can make appliers for it, what gives Omega the right to hack that? It's not cool, or legal.

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Perhaps it is because they have not been approved to be a designer for many of the "appliers" they utilize. Slink and many others want people to apply to use their brand, the Omega system bypasses all of that. They also did not purchase the applier to begin with. At one point they did indeed have a Slink applier. When Slink found out about it they were not amused and filed a DMCA on them. THAT is why i wont use it.

It's sad that a creator can't have a list of approved merchants because someone decided to hack the applier system.  Yes, Belleza does not have appliers yet, why should the Omega system be able to bypass that? If i make a mesh body, script it so only I, or approved merchants, can make appliers for it, what gives Omega the right to hack that? It's not cool, or legal.

---

Belleza advertises that their body can use Omega appliers on their own website.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Perhaps it is because they have not been approved to be a designer for many of the "appliers" they utilize. Slink and many others want people to apply to use their brand, the Omega system bypasses all of that. They also did not purchase the applier to begin with. At one point they did indeed have a Slink applier. When Slink found out about it they were not amused and filed a DMCA on them. THAT is why i wont use it.

It's sad that a creator can't have a list of approved merchants because someone decided to hack the applier system.  Yes, Belleza does not have appliers yet, why should the Omega system be able to bypass that? If i make a mesh body, script it so only I, or approved merchants, can make appliers for it, what gives Omega the right to hack that? It's not cool, or legal.

---

Belleza advertises that their body can use Omega appliers on their own website.

---

Yes, it does say hat, however it also says..

Will you have the ability to use clothing appliers?

Our mesh body comes with 2 clothing layer options one for clothing and one for underwear.  Clothing creators may apply to receive our developer's kit .

That tells me they will have their own appliers and they would prefer you to use them.

[Rhys Goode]

So far, all the "applier kit" appliers I have looked at are extremely clunky, and to use them I need to have to each instance of the script wrapped up in a clickable prim on my hud.  Only touch operated, and only by me.  On the other hand, if I drop my own listener script into the mesh body, I can do precisely what I want and trigger the "application" from a script or with a chat command.  This lets me make some fun toys.  So, inspite of the nice shapes of the avatars, Slink and Mesh Project have both been junked from my inventory.  If I can't play with the mesh, I have no interest.

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Perhaps it is because they have not been approved to be a designer for many of the "appliers" they utilize. Slink and many others want people to apply to use their brand, the Omega system bypasses all of that. They also did not purchase the applier to begin with. At one point they did indeed have a Slink applier. When Slink found out about it they were not amused and filed a DMCA on them. THAT is why i wont use it.

It's sad that a creator can't have a list of approved merchants because someone decided to hack the applier system.  Yes, Belleza does not have appliers yet, why should the Omega system be able to bypass that? If i make a mesh body, script it so only I, or approved merchants, can make appliers for it, what gives Omega the right to hack that? It's not cool, or legal.

---

Belleza advertises that their body can use Omega appliers on their own website.

---

Yes, it does say hat, however it also says..

Will you have the ability to use clothing appliers?

Our mesh body comes with 2 clothing layer options one for clothing and one for underwear.  Clothing creators may apply to receive our developer's kit .

That tells me they will have their own appliers and they would prefer you to use them.

---

Why? Belleza's bread and butter is skins, not clothing. Appliers are trivial because most mesh body part makers use mapping that's compatible with the old system clothing and skin maps so its just a matter of shooting a pre-existing texture onto an object. Belleza uses a different foot mapping but the clothing maps appear to be identical or Omega appliers wouldn't work. As a Tricky-come-lately to the market it would be in Belleza's best interest to not require clothing makers to use yet one more proprietary applier kit.

I'd imagine that Belleza's developer kit is similar to Slink's mesh developer's kit which would include a "mannequin" and weighting information so clothing makers could make fitted mesh clothing that's weighted properly. THAT information would be dynamite so I understand why it would be closely held.

[Bobbie Faulds]

Actually, Omega is approved by Belleza. When you get the Omega kit for Belleza you get a relay that the Omega applier talks to then the relay talks to the Belleza body. Chel didn't hack that, she talked to Tricky and got the channel he uses. Designers can't see it, only Chel knows and she's not telling. She's been talking to Siddean with Slink but no luck as of yet. The only Slink that worked was some of the old Slink stuff that had notecards you could see, The current Slink, the script copies the info from the notecards into the script then deletes the notecards.

Belleza, has not as of yet, released any kind of designers' kit. They advertise the Omega compatibiity because they authorized Chel for the creation of the relay hud.

The Omega doesn't "hack" the mesh parts. If they are mod, you can change them. So...you can add the script to it so it works with the Omega system. As far as I know, Chel has spoken to the creators, those that are still on the grid, and they have no problems. Without the Omega, in fact, those that have the Wowmeh and Phat Azz products would be restricted to purchasing only from those that have the original designer kits that are no longet available.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

---

Bobbie Faulds wrote:

Actually, Omega is approved by Belleza. When you get the Omega kit for Belleza you get a relay that the Omega applier talks to then the relay talks to the Belleza body. Chel didn't hack that, she talked to Tricky and got the channel he uses. Designers can't see it, only Chel knows and she's not telling. She's been talking to Siddean with Slink but no luck as of yet. The only Slink that worked was some of the old Slink stuff that had notecards you could see, The current Slink, the script copies the info from the notecards into the script then deletes the notecards.

Belleza, has not as of yet, released any kind of designers' kit. They advertise the Omega compatibiity because they authorized Chel for the creation of the relay hud.

The Omega doesn't "hack" the mesh parts. If they are mod, you can change them. So...you can add the script to it so it works with the Omega system. As far as I know, Chel has spoken to the creators, those that are still on the grid, and they have no problems. Without the Omega, in fact, those that have the Wowmeh and Phat Azz products would be restricted to purchasing only from those that have the original designer kits that are no longet available.

---

So, let me get this straight.. Tricky gave Omega the channel for the Belleza mesh when he hasn't released any appliers becaus:

"We have been working on an update for the body, and we didn't want to send out kits that would change and have you wasting time on work. So they will go out as soon as the update is sorted!"

That was posted on thir FB page. So, all the appliers made with Omega fro Belleza wil not work after the update. But Tricky gave it out anyway? Riiiight.

[Bobbie Faulds]

Unless he changes the channel the body works on, the appliers will still work. The changes are in the mesh, not the channel it recieves info on.  So yes, the appliers will still work. If he changes the channel, Chel will just do an updated relay and they will still work.

Sorry you don't like the system. Many designers, includy Slutware by Lexi, use them.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

At one point they did indeed have a Slink applier. When Slink found out about it they were not amused and filed a DMCA on them. THAT is why i wont use it.

---

I did a bit of Googling on this, in order to try to evaluate its accuracy and could find nothing about it, except within the content of this post.  Therefore, I must ask how you know this to be true.  As far as I understand, Slink did indeed wish to keep their system proprietary and made changes to their system in order to render it useless for any system but their own... which makes sense.  Regardless, Omega obviously doesn't work with Slink products... so, that, in itself, shouldn't be an issue.

That being said, I do believe Omega's creator should not be including appliers for products for which they haven't received the mesh creator's consent.  Since I couldn't find anything on their website which states that that's what they're doing, I tend to agree with your stance on the matter.

...Dres

[Bobbie Faulds]

I know Chel has talked to Tricky or she wouldn't have the channel for the relay to work. Since each listner script is specific to the body it goes in, it stands to reason she has spoken with the makers. Try talking to Chell before you decide her product shouldn't be supported.

As I've found, making appliers, the notecards from applier to applier are almost identical and in some cases are exactly identical. That would imply that they scripting is basically the same from mesh to mesh part. The fact that these parts are mod also means they can be changed. All the Omega does is add an additional channel the parts can listen to for changes.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but do talk to Chel. She's very open to speak with anyone. If she was out to make money, rather than provide alternatives, the conversion kits wouldn't be available for 1L, would they?

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Bobbie Faulds wrote:

I know Chel has talked to Tricky or she wouldn't have the channel for the relay to work. Since each listner script is specific to the body it goes in, it stands to reason she has spoken with the makers. Try talking to Chell before you decide her product shouldn't be supported.

As I've found, making appliers, the notecards from applier to applier are almost identical and in some cases are exactly identical. That would imply that they scripting is basically the same from mesh to mesh part. The fact that these parts are mod also means they can be changed. All the Omega does is add an additional channel the parts can listen to for changes.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but do talk to Chel. She's very open to speak with anyone. If she was out to make money, rather than provide alternatives, the conversion kits wouldn't be available for 1L, would they?

---

I haven't decided anything, but I do believe Drake has a point about a creator's right to monitor who has the rights to create appliers for their product and limit their licensing as such.

Besides that, I actually think it's a really good idea.  If I were a mesh body part creator, I'd not only consent to my products' inclusion in Omega, but I'd actually consider it to be a selling point and would happily instruct people to make use of it for sake of their own convenience, if nothing else.  But then, I'm not the type who'd be prone to being overly restrictive about people's use of my creations... those who are, may see things much differently.

Also, I don't believe the onus is on me, or anyone else, to inquire about who's permission the creator of Omega has to include a product.  If they've got the authorization to do so, it should be clearly stated on their documentation, as well as their website.

...Dres

[Perrie Juran]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

---

Bobbie Faulds wrote:

I know Chel has talked to Tricky or she wouldn't have the channel for the relay to work. Since each listner script is specific to the body it goes in, it stands to reason she has spoken with the makers. Try talking to Chell before you decide her product shouldn't be supported.

As I've found, making appliers, the notecards from applier to applier are almost identical and in some cases are exactly identical. That would imply that they scripting is basically the same from mesh to mesh part. The fact that these parts are mod also means they can be changed. All the Omega does is add an additional channel the parts can listen to for changes.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but do talk to Chel. She's very open to speak with anyone. If she was out to make money, rather than provide alternatives, the conversion kits wouldn't be available for 1L, would they?

---

I haven't decided anything, but I do believe Drake has a point about a creator's right to monitor who has the rights to create appliers for their product and limit their licensing as such.

Besides that, I actually think it's a really good idea.  If I were a mesh body part creator, I'd not only consent to my products' inclusion in Omega, but I'd actually consider it to be a selling point and would happily instruct people to make use of it for sake of their own convenience, if nothing else.  But then, I'm not the type who'd be prone to being overly restrictive about people's use of my creations... those who are, may see things much differently.

Also, I don't believe the onus is on me, or anyone else, to inquire about who's permission the creator of Omega has to include a product.  If they've got the authorization to do so, it should be clearly stated on their documentation, as well as their website.

...Dres

---

"I haven't decided anything, but I do believe Drake has a point about a creator's right to monitor who has the rights to create appliers for their product and limit their licensing as such."

Just pondering here but what about the End User's rights?

I was trying to think of a similar RL situation and what came to mind is the old fight about Cell Phones being locked to a service.  As I understand it the FCC ruled that th eproviders had to unlock the phones.

  http://www.fcc.gov/device-unlocking-faq

I'm just thinking out loud here.

[Bobbie Faulds]

And another thing to ponder...the mesh body parts makers have them mod. So...if they didn't want them to be modified in any way by anyone, then the permissions would have been set that way.

[Chellynne Bailey]

-waves!-

Hi! My lordys, quite the debate we have here! Well I figure I should clarify some things

 

1) We've never been DMCAd. Ever. It would be rather difficult to do so too since all of our scripts are written from scratch.

2) We did have a NC converter that would let Omega Users convert Slink NCs to be used on Omega compatable bodys. That still works on older Slink Appliers, however they did change their appliers to delete the NCs. Weither or not this was in response to us or not, I have no way of knowing since they do not respond to me. They say it's because designers asked for a more secure applier. -shrugs-

3) We don't use or distribute anyones appliers. We don't even distribute Phat Azzes or Tango Appliers. The appliers we distribute were scripted and made by us. We don't even utilize the meshes built in appliers, unless the mesh is no-mod.

4) We do use Tangos channels, because Tango freely lets others use their channels. (thats why every boobie on the market is  able to use Tango Appliers.

5) Belleza and Every other No-mod mesh on our list did infact give us their channels. I won't use channels unless they are given to me by the crteator. (otherwise there WOULD be a Slink Kit by now, because I've  been given those channels multiple times by well meaning individuals -chuckles-)

6) Most of the Mesh Makers on our supported List participated in some way in the creation of our Kits. Many send us meshes to test on, give us channel Info, put  out affiliate kits  up in their stores. Some have even started to come to me before their release to make sure their mesh is compatable.

7) When it comes to Mod Meshes... part of being mod is expecting people to make and modify your mesh for any of a variety of reasons. Rescripting Mod meshes is nothing new, people did with with the old implants to  make them bounce, change visible layers...add RLV capabilitys, even just to lower the script load. (some where pretty script heavy at some point).  Still, most of our Mod mehes, I've talked to the creator, and they were happy to help with the process. The few who weren't responsive to my requests are those like Implant nation, who quite frankly arn't around much...if at all....or there was too much of a language barrier to explain what I was doing. 

Trust me when I say this...the mesh makers on our list don't mind me one bit. If they did, they would be no-mod like Slink and TMP are, and they would not talk to me...like Slink and TMP... -chuckles-  Control  over your appliers sounds great...untill you realize then you have to complete with the likes of Slink to get Designers to make things for your mesh...and that is a battle most mesh makers would rather skip.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

I stand corrected.. I was lead to believe otherwise.

I am not afraid to say i was wrong. I may have to try out your appliers.

[CadenzaInVivace]

Slink and belleza bodies are no mod, why would they support omega system? This is the reason why I refuse to buy those two bodies. Not to mention belleza's body is so ugly. Those cankles and elephant legs. 3999L? Please give me one reason why I'd choose belleza's body over wowmeh or slink's which costs less than 1/3 the price of it and has probably 100x more applier support. Pretty satisfied with Wowmeh's body, cheaper, comes with 2 body options, and full copy/mod meaning you can mod the crap out of it, unlike those damned creators who slap on a no mod label on everything they make. Only gripe is the body mesh itself is not as refined as slink's.

 

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Perhaps it is because they have not been approved to be a designer for many of the "appliers" they utilize. Slink and many others want people to apply to use their brand, the Omega system bypasses all of that. They also did not purchase the applier to begin with. At one point they did indeed have a Slink applier. When Slink found out about it they were not amused and filed a DMCA on them. THAT is why i wont use it.

It's sad that a creator can't have a list of approved merchants because someone decided to hack the applier system.  Yes, Belleza does not have appliers yet, why should the Omega system be able to bypass that? If i make a mesh body, script it so only I, or approved merchants, can make appliers for it, what gives Omega the right to hack that? It's not cool, or legal.

 

 

"Hack"? Illegal? I lol'd.

First of all slink body is no mod which means you can't insert scripts into it.

Modding something you bought is called hacking? Giving people the ability the dress up the way they're supposed to is hacking? Tell me one difference between using a texture for a piece of SL layer clothing, or a pair of mesh breasts, and using the EXACT SAME TEXTURE (which is what all appliers are) on a mesh body. Using that texture because you use a different body is "hacking"? Why did LL choose to leave notecards readable then? It's the creator's own fault if they leave the notecard readable for anyone to grab the UUID. Are you one of those people who think everything in a game should be no copy/no mod because giving people the ability to edit THEIR OWN POSSESSIONS is too much? Lol never seen a consumer who'd rather kiss up to a creator's butt than stand up for consumer's rights.

In case that's too difficult for you to comprehend, here's a simpler scenario. You buy a prim, and insert a texture change script into it (which is what omega is), that's called hacking?

Lol I'm sure slink will be super mad that people who BOUGHT their mesh bodies are wearing some clothes that don't have official, FREE, slink applier huds. Yes slink will go bankrupt because people are wearing clothes not designated as "slinkable" by them.

Your post, and the logic behind it, is the very meaning of fail.

Kudos to omega creator for creating something that MOST mesh body owners will enjoy! You truly are a lifesaver, given that most creators don't provide applier huds for every mesh body. Open content creation and modding ftw.

[Chellynne Bailey]

Woooahhh girl. I apprieciate the support, and agree with most of your points, but lets be nice.

-chuckles and hands out candy-

Actually Belleza does support Omega. In fact, their body has been a huge boon to the cause because for some reason..they didn't release their own dev kit. You literally have to use Omega in order to cloth or skin the Belleza body. -scratches her head-  

Frankly the affect of their support has been so much, that if you go to the scripts catagory of the MP, our Kit for Belleza is number 5-6 depending on the day. 

[Rhys Goode]

---

CadenzaInVivace wrote:

Slink and belleza bodies are no mod, why would they support omega system? This is the reason why I refuse to buy those two bodies. Not to mention belleza's body is so ugly. Those cankles and elephant legs. 3999L? Please give me one reason why I'd choose belleza's body over wowmeh or slink's which costs less than 1/3 the price of it and has ....

---

You might not like the shape, and they may or may not be overpriced, but Belleza bodies are mod, So were the Womeh's, but they are off the market now, sadly.

I was badly misinformed, the Belleza bodies are indeed no mod.  I am bitterly disappointed.

With a modifyable avatar, I can put in my own custom built and scripted appliers, even make external controllers for others to use on my clothing layers.  So, for instance, I have a top that I made for myself, when I take it off using my applier, i have scripted my nipple peircings automatically appear.  Impossible to do with a no-mod avatar with clunly applier support, easy if you can roll your own.  That makes the mod avi a lot more valuable to me.  But value is a subjective thing.

[Pussycat Catnap]

"They say it's because designers asked for a more secure applier. -shrugs-"

I always find this silly because the UUID of every texture one sees in SL is stored in plain text format on a normal readable spot on every person's install of SL - a spot many of us look at often, for valid reasons...

There is no such thing as a secure texture in SL...

So a secure applier is a bit silly in some regards.

But TMP shows an example for it I guess. You can't get anything onto a TMP body without using their system. And this seems to have been very much not what developers want - as of the major mesh bodies its the least supported.

 

Belleza has, since this conversation was active, put out their dev kit - and the way they did that was great. Free, any noob can get it, and it even comes with an unrigged but scripted copy of the body - so you can test your appliers without needing to buy their body.

(My opinion of Belleza went from very negative when it first came out to very positive after the update, that appeared to have been done in response to the very concerns I'd been raising, even though it added a new bug with the slink hands.)

 

Omega is a great solution... that more or less leaves things now at a state of needing 4 appliers. Omega, Slink, TMP, Belleza.

While Omega supports Belleza... it only supports the slink-compatible copy of the Belleza body, not its hands/feet... thus the need for people to make Belleza appliers.

Slink feet/hands are almost compatible with the default UV map. The personal HUD for slink even has a texture to blend with your default avatar texture that will 'correct the difference'...

- But Belleza's hands and feet have a radically different UV Map... so I suspect its native body will never get good support. That is a shame because the Belleza hands and feet are IMO, much better done than Slink's (I will say the same thing for the TMP hands and feet, though in some poses the TMP wrist can squash itself).

 

Oh and... in the update, Belleza seems to have even added code specifically to make using Omega on its body even easier. At this point I wonder why they didn't just go mod (which would have let people with textures of their own making make new alpha zones for it by uploading a mixed skin/alpha as the texture). But otherwise - they've clearly gotten on board with helping developers make compatible content for their body.

 

[Bobbie Faulds]

Actually, you'll only need the Belleza applier if you are making skins or gloves/stockings/socks...for regular clothing you'll only need Slink, Omega, TMP (if you choose to support it).

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Rhys Goode wrote:

---

CadenzaInVivace wrote:

Slink and belleza bodies are no mod, why would they support omega system? This is the reason why I refuse to buy those two bodies. Not to mention belleza's body is so ugly. Those cankles and elephant legs. 3999L? Please give me one reason why I'd choose belleza's body over wowmeh or slink's which costs less than 1/3 the price of it and has ....

---

You might not like the shape, and they may or may not be overpriced, but Belleza bodies are mod, So were the Womeh's, but they are off the market now, sadly.

---

They are?

I need to check with the friend I've been drafting to helping me rewrite my review - since I don't want a review based on a demo this time. My impression was Belleza's body was No-Mod.

 

[Bobbie Faulds]

It is...However Belleza worked with Chel and there is a hud you wear that the Omega communicates with the hud and the hud with the Belleza body.

[Chellynne Bailey]

Clarification: You only need Belleza Appliers for the hand and feet Skins. the sock/glove layers are SLUV and take omega appliers.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

Sadly the hands / feet of Belleza have a crazy different UV Map - and convincing a skin maker to go back to Photoshop for a day per skin tone they have out is... going to be difficult.

I'm really hoping Belleza does one more update.

Their last update fixed a lot of things, but then broke the slink hands/feet body - it sites just about 0.01m to the side of the avatar center, resulting in a gap between the hands and body on the left:

And on the right, it slightly overlaps the hand.

 

And other than this, its now my favorite of the mesh bodies.

Though I have found that if you make your own nipple texture, and apply it, it shows up in the middle of a 'hole' of transparency around it - fixable by toggling the nipple alpha or the clothing top layer on/off.

- But the hole shows up again randomly on teleporting or logging in.