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Questions about Software and building in SL


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Hi.  I want to build things in SL. Please bear with me, for I do not know much.

I want to build houses and buildings, sculptures, wall-papers + floor textures, plants, shoes, t-shirts and pants, jewelry, furniture, wall art.  I'm concidering stones and outdoor ground textures depending on how hard those are to create. I'll want to try building other things as well, but you get the idea.

 

 -What is Maya or Blender useful for? Would I need a software for any of the things I mentioned? 

-As for mesh clothes, I am guessing they could only be created in a software such as Maya or Blender? Does photoshop make mesh too?

- I read that people with artistic minds struggle with blender rather than logical or techy people, while they do better in Maya. Is blender really hard compared to Maya for building? I have a wacom.

Thank you very much!

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1. Maya and Blenders are two of the several 3D editors available on the market. You need a 3D editor if you want to build with mesh. But, you don't necessarily need a 3D editor to build in SL, you could also use the internal prim system. Many people still build with prims or with a mix of the two. Building with mesh gives the best results but it has a steep learning curve. If you want to sell your creations it is necessary to know how to build with mesh, as that what most people expect to buy today.

2. Mesh requires a 3D editor, so the answer is yes. Photoshop does not make mesh, as it is an image editor. You can make textures with it that will cover the mesh to make it look more real. Photoshop does 2D image editing but it also has a dedicated module to paint on a 3D model (that is, a mesh model) to create the textures which will be applied on the model. However, please note that there are better dedicated 3D paint tools which do a better job. Once you get more confident with your building skills you may want to take a look at tools such as Allegorithmic Substance Painter  to paint on the model. For 2D image editing Photoshop is definitely the best editor on the market but you could also use a free tool like Gimp.

3. I can't say how hard Blender is to learn compared to Maya as I never used Maya. All 3D editors have a steep learning curve as they are complex tools, but Blender may be a bit harder than others. In reality, once you get its logic Blender isn't really that hard. Blender also has the undeniable advantage that is free while being on par in terms of capacity and features with professional 3D editors that costs several hundred US$, or €... :)

 

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For many of the things you have said you want to make, working inworld is preferrable. Unless you have very good plans with dimensions, using an off-world tool will make it hard for you to precisely size up creations to fit into existing spaces. Ground-cover is a case in point, where you always need to find a way to fill the voids left between buildings and terrain because of the rather coarse resolution of the land-tool.

 

The experience of building inworld with prims is unlike most of the off-world building tools, especially Blender, the closest tool I know is Sketchup, which is very intuitive to use, but then suffers from no direct export to SecondLife method.

 

I have used Singularity to export some of my bui;lds to a DAE file and then looked at them in Blender, but I confess I far prefer the experience of building in-world to switch over to using Blender all the time. But it has a thriving community and is probably the best choice for you to start off with. It is possible that learning it from scratch is easier than trying to learn it after using another method for several years.

 

Alternatively, have a look at the prim-to-mesh tools that are available on the marketplace. I use mesh and sculpt makers and am happy with them.

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1. What is used with mesh other than shirts? Trees or plants? I want to sell my creations overtime. 

2. Thank you for telling me that! I would prefer not to buy photoshop. I asked because I watched a couple youtube tutorials a while ago. They used free templates or stencils from other people on photoshop. It was simple.

3. How would I learn the basics? Are there any tutorials?

 

Thank you.

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Thank you for the tip. Since I am not too sure which things I enjoy making the most or which I am better at, I want to try some different ones out. I've built simple buildings in games before and enjoyed it a good amount, so I know I want to work on that. I don't think of SL as a game, but you get the idea. As for skills, I agree I shouldn't focus on too many things.

Do you know much about textures? Can textures be uploaded in world? I was thinking of drawing them out and uploading them in rooms.

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" Ground-cover is a case in point, where you always need to find a way to fill the voids left between buildings and terrain because of the rather coarse resolution of the land-tool." I'm not too sure what you mean by that.

I looked at prim to mesh tools. Do they do the same thing blender would except in world? Please explain that for me. I'm very interested.

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It could be said that I know about about textures yes :)

If you're making mesh buildings you'd have to make texture maps that correspond to your UV maps. Yes you can upload images and them apply them to objects.

Problem is (I believe) that mesh objects can only have 1 texture of 1024px, so even if you pack your UV islands really well it would be quite low rez if you were texturing a whole room. Better to make seperate meshes for pillars, walls and so forth and then build the actual structure inworld. You can of course have a plan in your 3d software of what you are going to build.

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@JingleWorm,

1. anything can be made with mesh. As a matter of fact, even SL's prims are a mesh. The fact that SL users make a distinction between the two ways of building is just a convention caused by the fact that the import of external models is a feature that was introduced in recent years. With the import of models made with external editors (what we call by convention "mesh") you can have more detailed models but sometimes building with prims can be more efficient in terms of time, ease of building and "weight" on the rendering system.

2. Please note that Substance Painter has a steep learning curve, so please take that into account. On the other hand, most things related to building have a steep learning curve. Even Photoshop is a complex program. However, perseverance pays off and the results can be very rewarding. Also, even if Substance Painter is an excellent tool there is always a need for a good 2D image editor, so you need to have Photoshop or Gimp in your toolbox. If you are serious about Substance Painter, try the trial version first and then make sure to get the Indie license. US$149 is a steal for such a sophosticated tool. Also worth to note is that they run special discount offers 3 or 4 times a year. I have created a community in Google+ you can follow if you wish to know more about the tool.

3. There are tons of tutorials on the web. Just do a Google search on the tool of choice and you'll find videos and text-based tutorials, also dedicated to building in SL. However, don't limit your search only to the use of the tools in SL, as most of the tutorials apply to SL as well. But, remember that SL's rendering engine has limits and not all the most advanced features are supported. This is particurarly true for Substance Painter, which supports phisically-based rendering (PBR) and that is not supported in SL. Don't be fooled by the great results you can see in the Substance Painter's videos because not all of what the tool does can be reproduced in SL.

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Prim-to-mesh tools are tools which can export a prim-based model and have two imprtant uses:

 

  • to have a copy of of a model that was built inside SL, that is not with an external 3D editor.
  • to create a mockup of what you want to build with an external editor so to have a better idea of proportions and how a model will fit in the environment. This is particurarly useful for buildings.

The exported model is usually in the DAE format and can be impoted into any 3D model editor that supports the DAE format. Take note that the resulting model is not optimized and needs some cleaning up if you want to import the model back to SL. As an example, usually things work this way: I build a rough mockup of a building inworld to get an idea of the building volume and how the building must adapt to the environment (i.e., I need to build on a steep hill). The exterior walls may be sufficient, no need to get into details. I export the model with a tool and import it into Blender. I clean up and optimize the model, then start to define the model the way I want it and add details. When the model is ready I import it into SL.

There are tools available in the marketplace but note that some third-party viewers have an model export feature as well. Generally it is not as good as the dedicated tools but good enough when you need to export a mockup.

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You have received some excellent advice here from several very skilled creators.  What I still find missing in both your question and their replies, though, is a consideration of the two most important parts of life as a creator: talent and patience.  It's hard to make mesh objects without tools like Blender or Maya, and it's impossible to make textures without some sort of image editor like Photoshop or Gimp.  You certainly need to have the right tools to do the work.  However, just having the tools is no guarantee that you will be able to create beautiful things that you can feel proud of and that other people might want to buy.

As others have pointed out, Blender, Photoshop, and all the other tools are complicated programs. They have steep learning curves because they are extremely versatile and they need to manage some very complex tasks.  They are professional programs that illustrators and designers use to make a living in RL, usually with several years of training and experience.  You can't pick them up and become proficient overnight.  It will take you hours, weeks, and months of practice to get the basics under your belt.  You'll have to dig into manuals, watch video tutorials, and do hundreds of practice exercises. Hence, patience.

It's also worth pointing out that just having the tools and knowing which buttons to push on them doesn't guarantee that you have the talent to create anything noteworthy.  My sister is a very successful artist in watercolor and acrylic paint. She can produce stunning effects with a few well-placed strokes of the brush.  No matter how much I have tried, anything I paint looks like an eight year old's failures at Paint By Numbers.  I just don't have her flair for 2D art. On the other hand, I'm a middling good 3D modeller and a pretty skilled scripter.  We all have our own talents. The trick is to know what yours are and to run with them. And not to confuse technical skill with creative vision.

So, talent and patience.  If there's a third element to add to the mix, it's focus.  Experiment like crazy, but try to stick to one idea long enough to learn what you can before tossing it aside for the next great idea. 

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For the purpose of Second Life, both Maya and Blender are both used for creating static mesh items for your environment (houses and landscaping items, etc.), for making  attachments to an avatar (hair, shoes, swords, guns, etc.), for creating animatable meshes (sp?) such as clothes that conform to the movement of your avatar, for creating the "materials" that contribute realistic or fanciful lighting effects for the textures you will create for these mesh items as well as for making animations for your avatar.  These programs can do many other things, but for Second Life these are the highlights.

I strongly suggest you start with Blender so you can decide if you have the time and interest to pursue this hobby.  This is extremely time intensive endeavor even when considered to be just as a hobby for the purpose of making a few bucks in SL. 

Although I've not used Maya, I've watched a number of Maya training videos and I would say for the purposes you have listed that Blender is not a more difficult a program to use.  Blender gets it's reputation for being difficult, I believe, because once one is acquainted with a particular program it can be very tedious to switch to any other 3d program.  The interface, naming conventions of tools and hotkeys are different from program to program (i.e vertex vs point, face vs poly..at the most simple level of naming things) and that all needs to be re-learned.   When I've read specific complaints about Blender I notice often these complainers have not taken the time to really learn Blender and all that it can do.  They simply make a lot of assumptions that are incorrect.

Intermediate and advanced modelers/animators rely very heavily on  tools they become familiar with, and most packages offer very similar tools since they need to stay competitive, however these similar tools may operate in a slightly different manner and are often given different names. It can be very frustrating to re-learn it all and this cause folks to unfairly bash Blender, since after committing to memory a large inventory of hotkeys to memory, create special hotkeys, as well as creating macros and scripts of one's own geared toward working fluidly in a program, starting over in any other software package can be a nightmare and is extremely time consuming.  Similar to  learning a new language, when you switch to a new modeling package you can't get your thoughts out fast enough for your brain and the speed of your creative output slows to a crawl while you learn a new vocabulary.  Few people enjoy that experience.

I made the mistake of purchasing Modo a number of years ago on on the advice of an advanced modeler I highly respect in SL.  She was correct that Modo is an exceptional modeling program, but only for someone who has advanced modeling skills and is already well grounded in all the concepts of 3d art.  I switched my focus to Blender and found I got a much better foundation in all the aspects of 3d art.  Only now, quite a number of years since I originally purchased Modo,  am I  able to devote time to learning how to use Modo without experiencing extreme frustration.  And nothing being perfect there are tools I love that Blender offers that are not available in Modo (and visa versa).  Depending on what I'm creating I often switch between Modo, Blender, Photoshop and Zbrush for a single project.

You are starting out without any prior 3d modeling experience so Blender will be an much easier program to grasp then for those who try to switch from another program and there are a huge number of free high quality Blender training videos available on the internet that are Second Life specific.  I know of at least one very talented and successful creator in SL  who exclusively uses Blender and Gimp create her mesh products.  Anything more then what these programs offer is overkill for her needs. 

[Edited out a stupid grammar mistake]

 

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Thank you all for the amazing advice! I really appreciate it.

I started learning blender. I decided to focus on a few things at a time. I like learning things that interest me a lot. It's more so getting the resources and finding the right places to start/guides that frustrates me easily. I agree that talent plays a huge role and that this won't happen overnight. Thank you for pointing that out for me. It made me think more realisticly about all of this. Over the years I hope to figure out what works for me and what doesn't, which things I will end up being better at, which I understand more at first, which I'll enjoy making more and all of that.

 God bless.

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